[RndTbl] Advice on finally buying my first laptop
Tim Lavoie
tim at fractaldragon.net
Mon Sep 28 00:51:27 CDT 2020
I've only had Dell and HP laptops for work use; the Dells have been
universally fine, and I haven't really liked an HP yet. The HP I've got
currently has a crappy keyboard and a thoroughly detestable trackpad, so
even if the rest is fine, it's unpleasant to use if those are your main
input mechanisms. I usually have that docked, and it's OK to use with a
separate keyboard and mouse.
My personal laptop is a bit of a beast, since I care more for comfort
and expandability than the current trend towards thin and light. It's a
Lenovo ThinkPad P50, from their "mobile workstation" line. I've had it
for about 2.5 years, and it's been a tank in the best ways as well.
- Robust, still feels new to me.
- Keyboard is great to type on, and I like that I can have a numeric
keypad on a laptop.
- It's designed for end-user expansion. One RAM slot is full, with
others waiting, and was the same for drive bays as well. In fact, it
now has the added SSD from the MBP I replaced with the ThinkPad,
after the glued-together Mac shit the bed (again). Not only can you
get into the innards, they even *show you how*. Yup, service manuals
are online! This applies to older Lenovos as well.
- While native Linux isn't the intention for the OP, it does work
great, and my main use case here.
- Lots of ports for I/O, not just a pair of USB-Cs.
Cheers,
Tim
Alberto Abrao <alberto at abrao.net> writes:
> It'll be hard to convince you that your HPs were bad, because they were
> probably not. The high-end models are good overall no matter the brand.
> (Well, except for Acer, because their high-end gear is... well...
> average, and priced accordingly. Acer is a budget brand, and, as long as
> you know what you are getting, this is not a bad thing).
>
> However, there are some things that I expect no matter the price. For
> example, I do not expect a great, clean Windows install from any brand
> on the low-tier models. It is what it is. But I do expect to find
> drivers without too much hassle so I can clean it up and start fresh. Or
> that a BIOS update will go through without further concerns. I also want
> to easily find downloads for older products. I am not talking about
> updated everything, of course. Instead, I expect to have access to an
> archive of everything that was released for a particular model, even if
> it is 5+ years old. And, of course, I want it to last at least 3+ years
> being reasonably taken care of without glaring issues like overheating
> or something blowing up/failing.
>
> And, in my experience, HP fails miserably on all of these points. Some
> are personal experience, some are from my current and past professional
> activities. A few ones that I can think of:
>
> 1) At one point, I had a HP Microserver N54L to which drivers and
> firmware updates were not available, unless you had an active support
> contract. HP is the only one I've seen doing this. You would have no
> issues getting that for any Acer/Lenovo/Dell/Asus product, no matter how
> cheap/expensive, consumer/enterprise, desktop/workstation/server, whatever.
> 2) When I worked at repair centres at one point or another, HPs were a
> huge staple. Their support is awful, they tend to have thermal issues,
> and they love to brick themselves during BIOS updates. This last one
> happened so often it was a running joke at one point. Myself, I can deal
> with these issues most of the time. But if someone asks me which brand
> to buy, I am not going to tell them to get something that they - or
> someone they will pay to do so - will have to deal with. I assume they
> want something they can use, and if possible, enjoy.
> 3) Most of the time, whatever it is that you're paying for an HP model,
> you can get something better from another brand for the same price.
> That's not always true of course, but it is often the case. Personally,
> if I am willing to deal with an occasional headache, I would rather have
> an Acer. They're cheap, and, if you are not too hard on your stuff, they
> last long enough. Or an Asus if I want something fancier.
>
>
> Now, Dell and Lenovo:
>
> 1) Generally more expensive, even the consumer-grade stuff, but better
> quality.
> 2) I've never dealt with Lenovo support for consumer-grade products, but
> Dell is really good, like hassle-free good, enterprise-level for
> consumer-grade gear. Enterprise is usually decent no matter what for any
> of them, because enterprise.
> 3) Both seem to be cutting corners on quality recently. That goes for
> the whole industry, it seems. They are still ahead of the others on quality.
> 4) Nice resell value. I don't know if you care, but if you do, they will
> hold their value better than the other brands.
> 5) They will have better Linux support.
> 6) I am not very familiar with Dell customization options, but be
> careful with Lenovo. If you think you're getting a steal of a deal, pay
> more attention before going ahead, because they will happily ship you a
> brand-new ThinkPad laptop with a 1366x768 TN panel. In 2020. Yes, I've
> unboxed these. And *there's* your deal!
>
> Asus and Acer:
>
> 1) Asus is, in general, higher quality than Acer. However, there's
> always *something* that goes pooch on a particular model, like
> clockwork. Most of the time, it is the display ribbon cable and/or the
> power supply. The former can be a PITA to replace, but the replacement
> part is cheap most of the time. The latter is just a matter of buying
> another one, but not always cheap. If you're doing your own repairs, or
> don't mind paying if necessary, you may be willing to go ahead with Asus
> and do it if/when the time comes, because they do offer a quality+value
> combination that is often unbeatable, especially when things such as
> dedicated graphics are a must.
> 2) Acer tends to have a more fragile enclosure, so if you're the
> hooligan type, it will show. But other than that, they don't seem to
> have any ticking time bomb hardware-wise most of the time. That said, it
> never hurts to search for a particular model number to research before
> purchasing.
>
>
> Asus and Acer are also the ones to buy if you're concerned about vendor
> lock-in practices such as BIOS whitelisting. It may be a moot point by
> now, as most manufactures are soldering the hell out of everything, but
> worth mentioning.
>
>
> Still, as much as I've seen (and fixed) a bunch of stuff, that's just,
> like, my opinion, man. You do you. Still, if I can be of any assistance,
> feel free to ask.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Alberto Abrao
> 204-202-1778
> 204-558-6886
> www.abrao.net
>
> On 2020-09-27 11:30 a.m., Glen Ditchfield wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:27:06 P.M. CDT Alberto Abrao wrote:
>>> Whatever you do, do not buy HP.
>> Got any war stories to share?
>>
>> My 2.5-year old HP Spectre hasn't given me any trouble, other than an initial
>> problem with Linux's thermal management. Before that, my HP Elitebook lasted
>> 8 years, with RAM and disk upgrades and a trivially-easy keyboard replacement.
>>
>> Two data points in a decade isn't much of a sample size, though.
>>
>>
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